What Steve says is not correct.
The employee doesn't pay anything into unemployment benefits. It is paid by the employer through two payroll taxes. One goes to the state, one to the federal government.
I suppose you could argue that indirectly the employee pays as compensation may be higher without these taxes, but that is a stretch to me.
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You pay into unemployment. Its not free money. Getting your money back should not have stipulations attached.Welfare on the other hand is free money, it shouldn't be spent on illegal drugs, booze, or pets for that matter!
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I don't even know what I would do if I was unemployed. My sense of purpose & self-worth would be diminished to the point that I wouldn't even feel like an American anymore.
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Ralphing, your preaching to the choir here when it comes to those with legitimate disabilities.
Part of the problem is a lot of times those with legit disabilities really don't want to admit they need it. When they are turned down they accept it as fact and figure out a different way to get by. As everyone knows eventually all other ways to get by are used up. Downside is by that time the legit persons are so far in the hole they can't see the light of day.
I'm not against helping others in need. I would prefer help comes from the community first, not government. I would prefer for most assistance that it not be a lifestyle. I don't believe the inability of one to get a good job because they chose to drop out of school is sufficient reason to have society support someone and their offspring for life. Now you lose your job due to no fault of your own, heck yeah, some temporary support to help you out is good. 99 weeks, is pushing it though.
Vauche, I don't disagree with most of what you say. Still, it isn't that easy. Most people under the age of 55 are going to get turned down their first attempt. So you better have some sound finances beforehand because it could be a long haul. I know a legitimate disabled guy who had to take out a second mortgage before finally being approved. He was 52 on his first attempt.
Ralphing, it really is as easy as it sounds. The point was those who went on unemployment when the recession hit are now going on disability ralphing, i.e. they were working prior to and somehow hurt themselves as their unemployment benefits expired. Pretty serendipitous don't you think?
The key to it is knowing what to claim as your disability. Those things that are hard to prove or disprove - back pain, mental health, fibromyalgia are all very simple to claim and very hard to disprove. And no, being depressed should not get one disability.
On the flip side of things it is harder for those that have a legitimate disability to get in the program. Why you ask? Honestly because they won't lie when filling out forms or talking to doctors.
Of course people that are unemployed are the ones who will collect disability because if they were working they wouldn't be eligible. To say that those collecting unemployment benefits can just slide into disability when those benefits expire is absurd. I'll be the first to admit that there is plenty of fraud involved in our current system but it isn't as easy as you make it sound.
Continued as it was cut off,
"Thus a quarter of people who drop out of the workforce and come off the unemployment benefits, simply move to receiving disability payments. And most stay there until they roll into the social security program when they retire - from their disability. The same source, a different program."
There's few more points in the article "ART CASHIN: The Unemployed Are Now Going On Disability And It's Costing The Government Billions".
So no shlort, nobody is saying ALL those on unemployment are or will abuse the system. We will however face the reality that there is a significant percentage that do. This percentage does cost us a great deal.
I will say though I commend you on your positive outlook of the American citizen. I wish I shared your optimism, unfortunately I see many of these folks in my line of work and can not share your point of view.
Here's a few excerpts for you from an article on businessinsider****. Take them how you will.
From Friends of Fermentation report, "In fact, they projected that nearly 25% of those not actively seeking a job had applied for, and been accepted, by disability - mostly Social Security."
From a report by JPMorgan, " As of January over 8.5 million individuals were receiving federal disability payments (an additional 2 million spouses and children of disabled workers also received disability payments). Since the onset of the recession and the subsequent slow recovery, this figure has accelerated and grown faster than the overall size of the potential labor force— currently 5.3% of the population aged 25-64 is on federal disability, up from 4.5% when the recession began."
"Thus a quarter of people who drop out of the workforce and come off the unemployment benefits, simply move to receiving disability payments. And most stay there until they roll into the social
Anyone who wants to argue with me over the reality and their misconceptions can save that argument for someone who is short sighted enough to agree.
Estacey, the UIA is not funded by the state. It is funded by employers within a state. These same emplyers also pay the FUTA to the feds for emergency unemplyment. Go do some more research and save the "go look at this" nonsense for someone else.
As far as the UIA costing taxpayer dollars, not even an issue. It is funded by the unemployment insurance tax. It is supposed to cost taxpayers nothing. No point in either of you two trying to elaborate your position further. I know all about the tax for unemployment and how much they take in. I also did some research on how much they spend. Anyway, keep pretending it is welfare or a gateway to something else. Honest hard working people will choose to work. Throw up some data on people going on disability from the unemplyment line. Otherwise, it is just your opinion or beleif.
The comments show how polarized this country has become. To some people, NO ONE can need help and EVERYONE that does need help must be "scamming" the system. Never mind the unbelievable number of people living under the poverty level working full time.
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Why is the question just about illegal drugs? People take illegal drugs to alter their mind. People use legal drugs to get the same effect, especially when mixed with our good friend alcohol. Things that can be purchased over the counter can get you just as messed up as any illegal drug. Even vending machines are packed with liquid "speed" drinks. How can the hypocrisy be ignored?
Gee Shlort, Thanks for the lesson. Y'now, here I was thinking that the UIA was a STATE regulated, STATE funded system of taking care of those folks finding themselves out of work.. For more information on the UIA, visit Michigan dot gov slash UIA.. Since when has any Michigan Government function not cost TAXPAYERS in this STATE?...I dunno,
As for social security, yes many are lazy. They claim disability and con the system into supporting them. No, these are not the seniors so please don't go there. The seniors actually lose out because there's people on SS that shouldn't be.
Medicare is for seniors and they have nothing to do with the regulations other than they freak when any reform is talked about. As it is it can't keep going there are just too many people coming of age and with fewer and fewer working the money will run out.
Now Medicaid, that's different. Now there's a program full of lazy people. No not all but a large percent are capable of work but see no need to.
Again, it isn't necessarily the programs (SS should go away though for future generations, those 40-45 and younger, my opinion). It's that they are being turned into a lifestyle that's the problem.
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Shlort, unemployment as originally designed is not really the problem. Unending unemployment, 99 weeks, is. Also, in gaming the system once unemployment benefits are running out people are flocking to disability for continued support.
There are also many stories where people are turning down positions because they make more on unemployment.
Unemployment cost me a ton. It prevents the economy from improving. It increases dependency on other entitlement programs. Contrary to what Pelosi says you can not stimulate an economy with unemployment benefits.
EStacey, I would hardly consider unemployment payments to be a lot of money. The way it works is not that a person receives the same amount of money as when they were working. It is a fraction of that, and I can't imagine there is a problem where people would rather get 1/3 of their usual income than to work. It is Probably close to what you want. Pays the rent and buys some food and people probably cancel their cable and extras out of neccessity.
Here is something else. That money is paid in by employers on the chance that they may need to reduce hours or employees for a time, or permanently. It costs you nothing. Not a dime of taxpayer money is supposed to be paid to unemplyment insurance. Of course it looks like taxpayers are footing the bill, but that is only because that money goes into the general fund these days and must be distributed from there.
How about SS and medicare? Are those people just too lazy or too stupid to be able to live without? Same basic thing if we look
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Pot can be just a deadly as alcohol when mixed with driving. If you think otherwise you are misinformed.
Pot just like alcohol while consumed in the home can not be guaranteed to be kept in the home.
The question really in my mind is should anyone doing anything illegal be denied any entitlement?
The answer is yes. To the specific question if you willfully make yourself unemployable, given current law, then I as your "benefit" provider repectfully decline to help you out.
Help yourself before you ask for help from others. At least make an effort.
Everyone needs to stop bringing Obama into every discussion. Come on people we need to care more about who our local and state representatives are. They're the ones who are making the majority of these laws.
We don't go around asking people what they spend their paychecks on. Many people work in jobs where the test for pot. People can still get past those tests. I don't consider marijuana a drug, especially not one that should be considered a schedule 1. I don't care who's smoking weed. I do care about the percentage of people who go to the bars and drink alcohol regularly, then get into their vehicle and kill someone. Alcohol is a way worse drug in my opinion and the only way it's controlled is after the fact. If you go sit at home with a case of beer and drink until your hearts content then do it. The same with people who get high.
Unemployment compensation is a benefit. Every cent your employer pays on your behalf is factored in to the wage he pays you. Of course the drug test is again mainly for pot users since its the only drug that stays in your system for any significant period of time. And I'm sure no one has a problem with anyone spending their checks on legal "drugs" like alcohol. By the way, unemployment compensation was around long before Obama took office.
un-enjoyment just wouldn't be the same without a big bag of weed and a bunch of pills to highlight a three month session of video games and pizza delivery. those people are entitled to their share of obama money, it's free.
I don't mind reading about some 'rich' and 'lazy' person 'suckling' on something they may have paid taxes for. I'm with Balls on the idea that unemployment and benefits have a funny ring to them.. There really should be NO benefit to being unemployed.. Without a doubt this country needs 'unemployment' reform.. Right now, there is 'incentive' to be unemployed.. Folks can make more money NOT working than they can many jobs they might be able to find. I only have an opinion on what 'reform' might look like.. but one item would be, 'unemployment' compensation only pays for BASIC living expenses.. Food and Shelter - if you owe money to a creditor, or cable television.. you'd better have a job cause 'unemployment' won't cover that stuff..
Whiz, a lot of the problem with things like SS and medicare is that there will always be a certain amount of people suckling from the program who should not be. These folks include the rich and the lazy. The people who abuse these programs do so knowing full well that they hide behind the protection of others. Namely, those who should be receiving these payments. No one will dare talk about removing a benefit from anyone because there are people who will cry for those affected by the move as everyone is lumped into one group by the media. So, we will never rid our system of fraud and abuse because there would be too much whining about it. The media spin would destroy any efforts to reform anything in this country. Wait til this immigration reform debate starts and then watch the media ruin any hopes of there being even the most casual discussions about it in DC. Divide among the masses increases market share for the media.
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too bad the government cannot be FORCED to make ALL decisions regarding SS accounts in the BEST interest for ONLY those who contributed into the system!
The obama admin tried - unsuccessfully to enact a law requiring ANYONE having the ability or entrusted to work with a retirement account to be a Registered/certified fiduciary...
the law wasn't passed but axed...
the spoilers were?
NONE OTHER THAN OUR FAVORITE PARTY
Thanks but NO thanks, we (republikans) like the system the way it is...
If the law passed, those people working with retirement accounts would have certify/guarantee they were working for the "BEST INTEREST" OF THE ACCOUNT holder.
Today, ONLY, less than 15% of the people who are "entrusted" to work with retirement accounts, are register/certified fiduciaries!
The remainder are 'brokers' a fancy word for salesman!
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