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Mich. courts weigh suits against right-to-work law

March 28, 2013

LANSING (AP) — Several courts are weighing a host of legal questions about Michigan’s right-to-work law, including how it was passed and how it will affect tens of thousands of public workers,......

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(25)

BravesRock

Apr-01-13 10:00 AM

Froggy, the American Medical Association is not a union, it is a professional organization. You will find these in many professions, such as engineers, architects, foresters, city managers, dentists, etc. Membership is voluntary, and they serve to promote the profession. The only time they have anything to do with employment if is an employer requires an employee or applicant to be a member of a professional organization because of certain certifications they offer.

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Vauche

Apr-01-13 9:25 AM

Frog, your assumption here is that the only people capable of doing the jobs are overpaid union guys.

This is not a correct assumption at all.

And for your information, only a small percent, I believe under 10% (3% sticks in my mind) of American physicians belong to the AMA. A good number of surgeons only belong because it is a requirement of their board certification and has nothing to do with their desire to be a memeber or their ability to perform their jobs. Know what you are talking about before you spew forth information.

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frogleggs

Mar-30-13 9:07 PM

Here in a nutshell is one answer to your flawed logic, Vauch.

The world according to Vouch:

“Would you hire someone for $30/hr if you can hire someone for $15-20/hr.

Or do you go to the most expensive plumber, electrician, mechanic you can find?”

I mean,

SERIOUSLY

Vouch ?

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frogleggs

Mar-30-13 9:05 PM

RIGHT NOW.

Airlines have indeed hired the CHEAP LABOR GUY.

In the U.S.,

ALL AIRPLANE MECHANICS…

ALL,

AIRPLANE,

MECHANICS,

Must hold FAA, licenses and certification papers to perform maintenance and repairs on all U.S. registered aircraft flying in the U.S., on aircraft frames, power systems, and avionics gear.

Now, the rich and their corporations,

THE AIRLINES,

have gotten around the FAA rules and regulations for aircraft maintenance

in order to

HIRE THE CHEAP LABOR GUY.

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frogleggs

Mar-30-13 9:03 PM

The rich, and their corporation, the airlines,

NOW

OUTSOURCE

maintenance and repair of U.S. aircraft to cheaper businesses OUTSIDE THE U.S.

The FAA,

DOES NOT

have the ability to control where the aircraft maintenance is performed,

nor does it have the ability to

REQUIRE,

that everyone working on aircraft maintenance outside the U.S.,

hold the required certification, licenses, and the ability to read, write, and understand ENGLISH.

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frogleggs

Mar-30-13 9:01 PM

BTW, Vauch,

all repair literature for the maintenance of these aircraft are written in ENGLISH.

The people doing the repair and maintenance of U.S. aircraft

DO NOT have to read, write, and understand ENGLISH.

The FAA, has insisted that ONE SUPERVISOR

must be licensed and certified by the FAA, and that he be able to read, write and understand ENGLISH,

BUT…

he is allowed to SUPERVISE, ten (10)

- non-certified maintenance personnel.

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frogleggs

Mar-30-13 9:00 PM

The FAA maintains,

that it does not have enough personnel to supervise the repair and maintenance offshore and/or in foreign countries,

so it is giving a

PASS

to, and in favor of the rich and their corporations,

so they may avoid paying higher wages to qualified and licensed repair and maintenance aircraft personnel here in the U.S. who may be union membes,

thus, corporations are putting your life and safety at risk,

just to save a buck!

Vauch,

You better HOPE,

that the CHEAP LABOR, non-certified guys,

don’t screw up on maintenance and repair issues,

on your next airplane ride…

Who would you rather have perform your brain surgery,

by a competent, educated, and licensed brain surgeon,

who just might belong to the medical union called the American Medical Association,

or,

by a

cheaper ‘brain guy’,

who stayed at the holiday inn express last night?

Go Figure!

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Vauche

Mar-29-13 4:10 PM

All that aside, I will never be a union man, if you like your union and have no issues paying dues have at it. I certainly won't stop you.

Some unions are better than others. Maybe yours is one of those. I've seen both ends of the spectrum in unions. I've seen them save the "bum" on the job that everyone thinks needs to be fired and I've seen them save the "unfortuneate" due to companies being rediculous.

So that's the best I can do. I don't know every union, but the ones I've seen and been around I do not like or see any benefit for anyone other than the union member.

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Vauche

Mar-29-13 4:04 PM

If we are right to work maybe the company can get 100% of their workers from Michigan. Why not look at it that way. Would you hire someone for $30/hr if you can hire someone for $15-20/hr. Or do you go to the most expensive plumber, electrician, mechanic you can find? Maybe my problem is you can make $30/hr as a ditch digger. Seems like a lot to me. Can you get someone off the street and a month later have them digging ditches? If so, the job is not worth $30/hr to anyone but the unions and the person in the position.

Of course companies want their own. That means less training and less expense which means they can bid less.

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Vauche

Mar-29-13 3:59 PM

Buckeye, I'm pretty sure I don't. Although I don't have much use for government workers either.

First and foremost all unions have done for me is drive up the cost of any goods I have to buy. So great all are paychecks are bigger but our buying power is the same or less. Unions driving up wages only raise the cost of the goods produced exponentially.

I won't apologize for saying unions destroyed the auto industry. They did, with help from the leadership of the auto industry I must add though. The unions pushed to the point that American car companies couldn't compete price wise with foreign car makers. $2000 of every car pays for employee health coverage. You know those cadillac plans that the unions got waivered by Obamah.

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Vauche

Mar-29-13 3:42 PM

Whizzy, how do you know I'm not rich?

I see where you are coming from now though. As a senior you should be ashamed of yourself. Look what your generation has left mine. This in and of itself tells everyone that you have nobodies best interest in mind but your own. Our senior generation has to this point been a pretty big disappointment in trying to solve the problems they created.

You can call me a liar, a cheat, a conniver, and a distastful opprotunist all you want. It certainly doesn't make you right or intelligent.

I'll tell you one thing. At the moment I certainly know more of what's going on than you. All I've ever seen from you is bashing the rich.

The rich aren't the problem. It's the self-serving, greedy, entitled people who believe they DESERVE what I have just because they breath. As far as I'm concerned they either need to start thinking for themselves and work or stop breathing!

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Whizzywhig

Mar-29-13 1:51 PM

Bucki,

Don’t waste your time ranting to muted minds.

Vache,

To the contrary,

I know where I live,

after all, I have lived here longer than you and have experienced, and forgot more than you’ll ever think you know’ed!

Your words:

Whizzy, do you not know this is America?

I can be anything I want to be and

I can achieve anything I want to achieve.

If I want to be rich I will be rich. “

SO,

VACHE,

WHY?

AREN'T YOU ANY OF THESE THINGS! ?

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Whizzywhig

Mar-29-13 1:49 PM

Your are correct to a point,

IF,

you had the knowledge,

which you don’t

show by your writing, and

IF,

you had the drive,

you might have,

which you don’t have,

because you’re here wasting your time arguing with an eighty-year old...

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Whizzywhig

Mar-29-13 1:48 PM

IF,

you wanted to be rich,

you couldn’t be rich,

because you neither have the intellegence,

the drive, or

the ambition and guts to steal from the rest of us,

like your fellow rich republicans and democrats,

so aptly are in the art of pursuing, in the form of money and greed.

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Whizzywhig

Mar-29-13 1:47 PM

Tell us once more,

how you could be all of these things you mentioned…

a liar,

a cheat,

a fraud,

a schemer,

a conniver, and

a distasteful opportunist!

You’re a failure.

I’m not….

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Whizzywhig

Mar-29-13 1:46 PM

What is it you want…

to be…

or

not to be…

You’ve already mentioned three (3) things which you cannot be,

you’ve failed at three….

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Buckeye

Mar-29-13 2:28 AM

oops..meant more decent jobs LOST for US...the issue was NEVER about paying or not paying dues...I mean come on..whats a lousy $27 bucks a month!!More lies/false propaganda..I take great pride in my work. Our union has a state of the art training center in Howell MI where any member can go and hone their skills..take safety classes,hazmat training, gain 'employer' required certifications. I had a teacher tell me once I would never be anything more than a ditch digger!!! He never told me I could earn $30+/hr doing it!! And ya know..Im dang good at it!! IAM beneficial to my Union, my community, my family and my country. and the lawsuits arent us trying to PROVE ourselves.****e on...I don't know why Im even wasting my time trying to convince you to SEEK THE TRUTH at least!!! UNION PROUD

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Buckeye

Mar-29-13 2:11 AM

Sooo who will benefit from that? Those out of state workers will spend their $ here while they are working..but they will take most of it back to their homestate!! And the contractor and the Gas company will rake in HIGHER profits...And they don't shop where our kids and friends and neighbors work.All the negative ad campaigns etc..who do you think pays for all that? Well, ask yourself...who can AFFORD to run those adds..? There ya GO!!

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Buckeye

Mar-29-13 2:03 AM

I will tell you what right to work will mean in my industry. I mostly work pipeline. When a contractor wins a bid with my Union (324)they have an agreement to hire 50% Union and 50% company side. (Usually workers from a rtw state of course) Now..with this new law..the company wont have to honor that agreement anymore..more Michigan jobs lost..they will be sure to bring all their kin..Its bad enough now as it is.(Or was) Companies are always trying to find ways to bring their own in. And just where will our state be then. More decent paying jobs for US..as in fellow Michiganders..Unions ARE NOT THE ENEMY!!

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Buckeye

Mar-29-13 1:55 AM

Vauche..I believe you have union workers mixed up with gov workers??.I work my rear off...and I proudly pay my 'dues' via check.I pay those dues not just for me ,but you..and every other hard working American in this country.Union or not.If your'e content to sit back and wait for crumbs (or who knows maybe thats all you consider yourself worth)fine. And shame on you for saying the UAW caused the auto industry to collapse.Thats just nuts.Also,the prob isnt that members feel their unions arent benefiting them..more lies spread by...well go figure. Corporate profits have never been higher..don't sell yourself short...You too deserve a decent wage for a decent days work..you too deserve to send your children to college..have a decent retirement..health care..do you really think the union workers are just so filthy rich and greedy??HA! Come on!Im aProud dues paying member of IUOE #324.

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Vauche

Mar-28-13 11:28 PM

Whizzy, do you not know this is America?

I can be anything I want to be and I can achieve anything I want to achieve.

If I want to be rich I will be rich.

Before anyone blames someone else for their lot in life they really need to look in the mirror.

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Whizzywhig

Mar-28-13 9:44 PM

Why....

Why did most of your parents and grandparents,

sacrifice so much to establish the right to

bargain

with their

rich employers?

Evidently, you've all had it so well, that you are willing to

'take' whatever crumbs the rich toss your way....

FOR now...............

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wereintroublenow

Mar-28-13 1:55 PM

Yea, the unions have done such a fine job for the state. Just look at detroit for example, union auto capitol of the world, well it once was, before the unions caused the auto industry to collaps

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Fireguy016

Mar-28-13 12:23 PM

Couldn't have said it better Vauche.Some people don't want to hear the truth though.Just look at Detroit,I'm sure some Democrat will find a way to blame the corruption and mismanagement by the cities politicians and unions on The Republican Gov.

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Vauche

Mar-28-13 11:53 AM

I don't see what the big deal here is. Nobody is saying you can't pay dues for crying out loud just that the unions can't "granish" your wages. If you want to pay, cut the check. How hard is that? Oh, wait, that sounds like work, isn't there a specific person who's job is to write checks? After all that isn't in my job description. You can't make me do it or I'll get my union rep on your butt and sue you !#$!

You see the problem is most folks don't believe their unions benefit them anymore and just*****money from their paycheck. These people won't pay and this is what the unions are afraid of. They will lose power over the company and state that they pretty much have or are destroying.

For the first time in a long time unions will actually have to prove themselves beneficial to their people. Based on these lawsuits I'm thinking they believe this will be a hard task.

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